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From Matriarchy to Advocacy: Sudan’s struggles, global solidarity, and the fight for self-determination
maya finoh: It’s our first time meeting, so I’d absolutely love to learn more about you and who you are! Can you tell me about some experiences or moments in your life that have really shaped you? And who are your people?
TARTEEL AL IMAM: My name is Tarteel Al Imam. I was born and raised in Omdurman, Sudan, where I spent my childhood. I grew up surrounded by the most amazing women—my aunts, my mom, and my grandmothers. It was a very matriarchal household, and I saw these incredible women doing everything with so much passion and love.
I moved to the United States when I was eight, and wow, it felt like moving to another planet! Everything was so different—the language, the people, and the culture. I went from being in a very communal society, where everyone knows everyone, to a much more individualistic one. In Sudan, your neighbors are like your second family. Everyone’s in and out of each other’s houses. So, that sense of community was something I really missed when I first moved here.
Being Sudanese is a huge part of who I am, and I’ve always been driven to give back to my community. I started tutoring Sudanese students, mentoring them, and it made me realize that I want to use whatever skills and resources I’ve gained to uplift the Sudanese community. That’s how I got into advocacy for Sudan. In 2019, after the revolution, I co-founded the Sudanese Diaspora Network. Our goal is to bridge the gap between the diaspora and the youth in Sudan. We’ve worked on projects like renovating playgrounds at Mygoma, an orphanage in Sudan, because even though we’ve physically left Sudan, it will always be a part of us. Everything I do, I try to bring it back to Sudan. I owe so much to my grandmothers. Every single thing I do can be traced back to the principles and values they instilled in me—living with love, joy, and always giving back to the community. That’s what drives me every day.
maya: So much of what you said resonated with me. My family is West African, from Sierra Leone, and the role of grandmothers is something I connect with deeply. My own grandmother came to live with us in the ‘90s during the Civil War in our country, so I completely understand the love and influence that grandmothers hold.
As you know, atrocities in Africa are often portrayed as humanitarian crises or civil wars, even when there’s foreign interference seeking control of natural resources. So, I’m wondering if you could explain why the ongoing violence in Sudan today is better understood as a proxy war or even a counter-revolutionary war against the Sudanese people.
TARTEEL: In Sudan’s case, there are multiple regional and international actors with very vested interests in the conflict, backing different factions. For example, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have strategic interests, particularly regarding the Nile River and political stability in the region. Egypt is closely aligned with Sudan’s military faction, the SAF, because they fear that instability might jeopardize their Nile water supply and influence.
On the other hand, the UAE and Russia, particularly through the Wagner Group, are supporting the RSF due to their heavy investment in Sudan’s gold resources and its strategic positioning on the Red Sea. The UAE views the RSF, led by Hemeti, as a strategic partner for controlling Sudan’s lucrative gold mines. Sudan is one of the world’s largest producers of gold, and the RSF controls vast mines in Darfur and other regions. The UAE is illegally extracting this gold, using the RSF as the means to do so. The RSF, in turn, relies on the UAE’s backing to sustain its operations, build wealth, and maintain its influence.
The gold is being smuggled to Dubai, a global hub for gold trading, which is further fueling the conflict. This gold comes at the cost of people’s lives.This smuggling and exploitation are directly prolonging the conflict, with the UAE playing a critical yet under- acknowledged role, costing millions of lives.
In 2019, the Sudanese people successfully ousted longtime dictator Omar al-Bashir through a popular revolution, driven by civilian- led protests calling for Huria, Salaam, wa Adalah—freedom, peace, and justice—and an end to military rule. In Darfur, the RSF has continued the genocidal tactics used during the earlier conflict, targeting different communities, burning villages, and committing horrific acts of violence.
maya: I appreciate how you pointed out that actors like the UAE, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Russia are backing these militias and essentially banking on destabilization to maintain control over Sudan’s rich natural resources, which the Sudanese people themselves should have control over. They should be able to determine how to use these resources for their own benefit.
I also want to thank you for highlighting that ethnic cleansing is being used as a deliberate war tactic. I feel like that genocidal aspect is often missing from the analysis when non-Africans or non-Sudanese people discuss what’s happening in Sudan.
On that note, I’d love to know what sparked the creation of the #KeepEyesOnSudan hashtag.
TARTEEL: Yes, so the hashtag #KeepEyesOnSudan originally emerged during the 2019 Sudanese uprising as a response to the violent crackdown by military forces on peaceful, pro-democracy protesters. It was driven by the urgent need to raise global awareness of the atrocities happening in Sudan, especially because the country was often under an information blackout. This blackout was intentional, designed to isolate the Sudanese people and keep the rest of the world in the dark about what was happening.
With the internet shut down, communication was cut off, making it incredibly difficult for the international community to grasp the scale of the violence. During this time, very few reports of the massacres got out, and this silence was dangerous—it cost lives, with those on the ground paying the price. To counter this, Sudanese activists turned to social media platforms like Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook to share whatever information they could get from people on the ground, alerting the world to the atrocities being committed.
The #KeepEyesOnSudan hashtag was created to raise international awareness and ensure that the ongoing revolution and the Sudanese people’s demands for a civilian-led government didn’t go unnoticed or get forgotten by the global community. It was about accountability, about not letting the martyrs who sacrificed their lives for Sudan’s liberation be forgotten.
maya: You’ve already touched upon the revolutionary uprising and the unwavering desire for democratic, civilian rule in Sudan— in your opinion, what does Sudanese self-determination require?
TARTEEL: I think that Sudanese self-determination is a complex and long-term goal that requires multiple layers of change. First and foremost, it requires a government that is democratically elected, accountable to the people, and free from military control. Since the ousting of Omar Al-Bashir in 2019, the power struggle between the military and the RSF has been a major obstacle to democracy. One of the most crucial steps toward self-determination is establishing a civilian government. This also requires transparent elections. Sudanese people need the opportunity to participate in free, fair, and transparent elections, where they can choose their representatives without interference from the military or foreign powers.
For Sudan to truly achieve self-determination, I strongly believe that marginalized groups—women, ethnic minorities, and youth—must have an active role in political decision-making. We saw in the 2019 revolution that it was women-led, and even now, many grassroots organizations and humanitarian relief efforts are youth-led and women-led.
Another key factor is freedom of speech and press. This is not a guaranteed right in Sudan, and Sudanese people must be allowed to express their opinions, criticize the government, and participate in political life without fear of repression or censorship. Finally, self-determination requires recognizing and respecting all of Sudan’s cultural and ethnic identities. Policies must promote inclusion, equality, and respect for diversity, rather than favoring certain groups over others, which has historically been the case.
maya: What is the role of those of us committed to the liberation of the African continent in the ongoing struggle for people’s rule in Sudan? Specifically, what actions can those of us living in the heart of the U.S. empire—what many call the belly of the beast—take in solidarity with Sudanese organizers?
TARTEEL: I truly love this question because I believe that those dedicated to the liberation of the African continent have a crucial role in standing with Sudanese organizers and amplifying their demands for self-determination, civilian governance, and human rights. The role of African liberation movements, both on the continent and in the diaspora, is to forge solidarity, apply pressure on international actors, and uplift grassroots efforts, as true change arises from the ground up.
One key aspect is amplifying Sudanese voices. African liberation activists can provide platforms for Sudanese organizers to share their stories, strategize, and create lists of demands.
International pressure on governments and institutions is another important avenue. African liberation movements can work to expose and challenge foreign interference, spotlighting exploitative relationships. For instance, pinpointing actors like the UAE, Russia, and Egypt allows us to counter the narrative that frames the situation as merely a humanitarian crisis.
People in the U.S., specifically, have a unique and crucial role to play in supporting Sudan and Sudanese organizers, given America’s significant influence on global politics, economics, and military affairs. This means pushing for diplomatic pressures on the UAE to cease their financial and military support for the ongoing violence in Sudan.
It’s important to understand that Sudan is not forgotten; people simply ignore it. While there are Sudanese voices on the ground, their stories often remain unheard outside their communities.
Additionally, advocating for refugee rights is crucial. This means pushing for policies that grant asylum and protection for Sudanese refugees. With more than 10 million people displaced, we must ensure they are treated with dignity and provided the resources to thrive in their new environments, whether that’s in the U.S. or in neighboring countries like Egypt.
maya: Is there anything else you’d like to share?
TARTEEL: This is what humanity is all about: breaking down the barriers that keep us separate. When we shift away from the mentality of “What can I do as an individual?” we start to see that we are much stronger together. It’s about viewing this as an opportunity for collective action rather than the burden of individual action. The more we embrace this idea, the more we can truly make a difference.
maya: Ultimately, we need to be so rooted in collective action that the call for a free Sudan is also clearly a call for a free Palestine, a free Congo, a free West Papua, a free Haiti— a free Global South.
‘In 2019, the Sudanese people successfully ousted longtime dictator Omar al-Bashir through a popular revolution, driven by civilian-led protests calling for Huria, Salaam, wa Adalah—freedom, peace, and justice— and an end to military rule. In Darfur, the RSF has continued the genocidal tactics used during the earlier conflict, targeting different communities, burning villages, and committing horrific acts of violence.’
—Tarteel
Slow Factory Fellow maya finoh, here in conversation with Tarteel Al Imam, a Sudanese advocate, who shared her journey from a matriarchal household in Sudan to becoming an educator and advocate in the U.S. She highlighted the ongoing violence in Sudan, attributing it to regional and international actors like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Russia, who exploit Sudan’s natural resources. Tarteel emphasized the importance of a civilian-led government, transparency, and inclusion for Sudanese self- determination. She called for global solidarity, advocating for amplifying Sudanese voices, pressuring foreign actors, and supporting refugee rights and grassroots movements. The conversation underscored the need for collective action and intersectionality in achieving global justice.
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Filed under:
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{
"article":
{
"title" : "From Matriarchy to Advocacy: Sudan’s struggles, global solidarity, and the fight for self-determination",
"author" : "maya finoh, Tarteel Al Imam",
"category" : "interviews",
"url" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/readings/tarteel-al-imam-sudan-global-solidarity-self-determination",
"date" : "2024-11-01 12:59:00 -0400",
"img" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/uploads/tarteel-thumb.jpg",
"excerpt" : "maya finoh: It’s our first time meeting, so I’d absolutely love to learn more about you and who you are! Can you tell me about some experiences or moments in your life that have really shaped you? And who are your people?",
"content" : "maya finoh: It’s our first time meeting, so I’d absolutely love to learn more about you and who you are! Can you tell me about some experiences or moments in your life that have really shaped you? And who are your people?TARTEEL AL IMAM: My name is Tarteel Al Imam. I was born and raised in Omdurman, Sudan, where I spent my childhood. I grew up surrounded by the most amazing women—my aunts, my mom, and my grandmothers. It was a very matriarchal household, and I saw these incredible women doing everything with so much passion and love.I moved to the United States when I was eight, and wow, it felt like moving to another planet! Everything was so different—the language, the people, and the culture. I went from being in a very communal society, where everyone knows everyone, to a much more individualistic one. In Sudan, your neighbors are like your second family. Everyone’s in and out of each other’s houses. So, that sense of community was something I really missed when I first moved here.Being Sudanese is a huge part of who I am, and I’ve always been driven to give back to my community. I started tutoring Sudanese students, mentoring them, and it made me realize that I want to use whatever skills and resources I’ve gained to uplift the Sudanese community. That’s how I got into advocacy for Sudan. In 2019, after the revolution, I co-founded the Sudanese Diaspora Network. Our goal is to bridge the gap between the diaspora and the youth in Sudan. We’ve worked on projects like renovating playgrounds at Mygoma, an orphanage in Sudan, because even though we’ve physically left Sudan, it will always be a part of us. Everything I do, I try to bring it back to Sudan. I owe so much to my grandmothers. Every single thing I do can be traced back to the principles and values they instilled in me—living with love, joy, and always giving back to the community. That’s what drives me every day.maya: So much of what you said resonated with me. My family is West African, from Sierra Leone, and the role of grandmothers is something I connect with deeply. My own grandmother came to live with us in the ‘90s during the Civil War in our country, so I completely understand the love and influence that grandmothers hold.As you know, atrocities in Africa are often portrayed as humanitarian crises or civil wars, even when there’s foreign interference seeking control of natural resources. So, I’m wondering if you could explain why the ongoing violence in Sudan today is better understood as a proxy war or even a counter-revolutionary war against the Sudanese people.TARTEEL: In Sudan’s case, there are multiple regional and international actors with very vested interests in the conflict, backing different factions. For example, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have strategic interests, particularly regarding the Nile River and political stability in the region. Egypt is closely aligned with Sudan’s military faction, the SAF, because they fear that instability might jeopardize their Nile water supply and influence.On the other hand, the UAE and Russia, particularly through the Wagner Group, are supporting the RSF due to their heavy investment in Sudan’s gold resources and its strategic positioning on the Red Sea. The UAE views the RSF, led by Hemeti, as a strategic partner for controlling Sudan’s lucrative gold mines. Sudan is one of the world’s largest producers of gold, and the RSF controls vast mines in Darfur and other regions. The UAE is illegally extracting this gold, using the RSF as the means to do so. The RSF, in turn, relies on the UAE’s backing to sustain its operations, build wealth, and maintain its influence.The gold is being smuggled to Dubai, a global hub for gold trading, which is further fueling the conflict. This gold comes at the cost of people’s lives.This smuggling and exploitation are directly prolonging the conflict, with the UAE playing a critical yet under- acknowledged role, costing millions of lives.In 2019, the Sudanese people successfully ousted longtime dictator Omar al-Bashir through a popular revolution, driven by civilian- led protests calling for Huria, Salaam, wa Adalah—freedom, peace, and justice—and an end to military rule. In Darfur, the RSF has continued the genocidal tactics used during the earlier conflict, targeting different communities, burning villages, and committing horrific acts of violence.maya: I appreciate how you pointed out that actors like the UAE, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Russia are backing these militias and essentially banking on destabilization to maintain control over Sudan’s rich natural resources, which the Sudanese people themselves should have control over. They should be able to determine how to use these resources for their own benefit.I also want to thank you for highlighting that ethnic cleansing is being used as a deliberate war tactic. I feel like that genocidal aspect is often missing from the analysis when non-Africans or non-Sudanese people discuss what’s happening in Sudan.On that note, I’d love to know what sparked the creation of the #KeepEyesOnSudan hashtag.TARTEEL: Yes, so the hashtag #KeepEyesOnSudan originally emerged during the 2019 Sudanese uprising as a response to the violent crackdown by military forces on peaceful, pro-democracy protesters. It was driven by the urgent need to raise global awareness of the atrocities happening in Sudan, especially because the country was often under an information blackout. This blackout was intentional, designed to isolate the Sudanese people and keep the rest of the world in the dark about what was happening.With the internet shut down, communication was cut off, making it incredibly difficult for the international community to grasp the scale of the violence. During this time, very few reports of the massacres got out, and this silence was dangerous—it cost lives, with those on the ground paying the price. To counter this, Sudanese activists turned to social media platforms like Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook to share whatever information they could get from people on the ground, alerting the world to the atrocities being committed.The #KeepEyesOnSudan hashtag was created to raise international awareness and ensure that the ongoing revolution and the Sudanese people’s demands for a civilian-led government didn’t go unnoticed or get forgotten by the global community. It was about accountability, about not letting the martyrs who sacrificed their lives for Sudan’s liberation be forgotten.maya: You’ve already touched upon the revolutionary uprising and the unwavering desire for democratic, civilian rule in Sudan— in your opinion, what does Sudanese self-determination require?TARTEEL: I think that Sudanese self-determination is a complex and long-term goal that requires multiple layers of change. First and foremost, it requires a government that is democratically elected, accountable to the people, and free from military control. Since the ousting of Omar Al-Bashir in 2019, the power struggle between the military and the RSF has been a major obstacle to democracy. One of the most crucial steps toward self-determination is establishing a civilian government. This also requires transparent elections. Sudanese people need the opportunity to participate in free, fair, and transparent elections, where they can choose their representatives without interference from the military or foreign powers.For Sudan to truly achieve self-determination, I strongly believe that marginalized groups—women, ethnic minorities, and youth—must have an active role in political decision-making. We saw in the 2019 revolution that it was women-led, and even now, many grassroots organizations and humanitarian relief efforts are youth-led and women-led.Another key factor is freedom of speech and press. This is not a guaranteed right in Sudan, and Sudanese people must be allowed to express their opinions, criticize the government, and participate in political life without fear of repression or censorship. Finally, self-determination requires recognizing and respecting all of Sudan’s cultural and ethnic identities. Policies must promote inclusion, equality, and respect for diversity, rather than favoring certain groups over others, which has historically been the case.maya: What is the role of those of us committed to the liberation of the African continent in the ongoing struggle for people’s rule in Sudan? Specifically, what actions can those of us living in the heart of the U.S. empire—what many call the belly of the beast—take in solidarity with Sudanese organizers?TARTEEL: I truly love this question because I believe that those dedicated to the liberation of the African continent have a crucial role in standing with Sudanese organizers and amplifying their demands for self-determination, civilian governance, and human rights. The role of African liberation movements, both on the continent and in the diaspora, is to forge solidarity, apply pressure on international actors, and uplift grassroots efforts, as true change arises from the ground up.One key aspect is amplifying Sudanese voices. African liberation activists can provide platforms for Sudanese organizers to share their stories, strategize, and create lists of demands.International pressure on governments and institutions is another important avenue. African liberation movements can work to expose and challenge foreign interference, spotlighting exploitative relationships. For instance, pinpointing actors like the UAE, Russia, and Egypt allows us to counter the narrative that frames the situation as merely a humanitarian crisis.People in the U.S., specifically, have a unique and crucial role to play in supporting Sudan and Sudanese organizers, given America’s significant influence on global politics, economics, and military affairs. This means pushing for diplomatic pressures on the UAE to cease their financial and military support for the ongoing violence in Sudan.It’s important to understand that Sudan is not forgotten; people simply ignore it. While there are Sudanese voices on the ground, their stories often remain unheard outside their communities.Additionally, advocating for refugee rights is crucial. This means pushing for policies that grant asylum and protection for Sudanese refugees. With more than 10 million people displaced, we must ensure they are treated with dignity and provided the resources to thrive in their new environments, whether that’s in the U.S. or in neighboring countries like Egypt.maya: Is there anything else you’d like to share?TARTEEL: This is what humanity is all about: breaking down the barriers that keep us separate. When we shift away from the mentality of “What can I do as an individual?” we start to see that we are much stronger together. It’s about viewing this as an opportunity for collective action rather than the burden of individual action. The more we embrace this idea, the more we can truly make a difference.maya: Ultimately, we need to be so rooted in collective action that the call for a free Sudan is also clearly a call for a free Palestine, a free Congo, a free West Papua, a free Haiti— a free Global South.‘In 2019, the Sudanese people successfully ousted longtime dictator Omar al-Bashir through a popular revolution, driven by civilian-led protests calling for Huria, Salaam, wa Adalah—freedom, peace, and justice— and an end to military rule. In Darfur, the RSF has continued the genocidal tactics used during the earlier conflict, targeting different communities, burning villages, and committing horrific acts of violence.’—Tarteel"
}
,
"relatedposts": [
{
"title" : "Ziad Rahbani and the Art of Creative Rebellion",
"author" : "Céline Semaan",
"category" : "essays",
"url" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/readings/ziad-rahbani-creative-rebellion",
"date" : "2025-07-28 07:01:00 -0400",
"img" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/uploads/2025_7_for-EIP-ziad-rahbani.jpg",
"excerpt" : "When I turned fourteen in Beirut, I came across Ziad Rahbani’s groundbreaking work. I immediately felt connected to him, his words, his perspective and his unflinching commitment to liberation for our people and for Palestine. My first love introduced me to his revolutionary plays, his unique contributions to Arab music and very soon I had listened to all of his plays and expanded my understanding of our own culture and history.",
"content" : "When I turned fourteen in Beirut, I came across Ziad Rahbani’s groundbreaking work. I immediately felt connected to him, his words, his perspective and his unflinching commitment to liberation for our people and for Palestine. My first love introduced me to his revolutionary plays, his unique contributions to Arab music and very soon I had listened to all of his plays and expanded my understanding of our own culture and history.Ziad Rahbani’s passing marks more than the end of a brilliant life—it marks the closing of a chapter in the cultural history of our region. His funeral wasn’t just a ceremony, it was a collective reckoning; crowds following his exit from the hospital to the cemetery. The streets knew what many governments tried to forget: that he gave voice to the people’s truths, to our frustrations, our absurdities, our grief, and our undying hope for justice. Yet he died as an unsung hero.Born into a family that shaped the musical soul of Lebanon, Ziad could have taken the easy path of replication. Instead, he shattered the mold. From his early plays like Sahriyye and Nazl el-Surour, he upended the elitism of classical Arabic theatre by placing the working class, the absurdity of war, and the contradictions of society at the center of his work. He spoke like the people spoke. He made art in the language of the taxi driver, the student, the mother waiting for news of her son.In his film work Film Ameriki Tawil, Ziad used satire not only as critique, but as rebellion. He exposed the rot of sectarian politics in Lebanon with surgical precision, never sparing anyone, including the leftist circles he moved in. He saw clearly: that political purity was a myth, and liberation required uncomfortable truths. His work, deeply rooted in class consciousness, refused to glorify any side of a war that tore his country apart.And yet, Ziad Rahbani never lost his clarity on Palestine. While others wavered, diluted their positions, or folded into diplomacy, Ziad remained steadfast. His support for the Palestinian struggle was not an aesthetic position—it was a political and ethical commitment. And he did so not as an outsider or savior, but as someone who understood that our futures are intertwined. That the liberation of Palestine is integral to the liberation of Lebanon. That anti-sectarianism and anti-Zionism are not contradictions, but extensions of each other.He brought jazz into Arabic music not as a novelty, but as a defiant act of cultural fusion—proof that our identities are not fixed, but fluid, diasporic, ever-evolving. He blurred the lines between Western musical forms and Arabic lyricism with intention, not mimicry. His collaborations with his mother, the legendary Fairuz, carried the weight of generational dialogue, but his own voice always broke through—wry, melancholic, grounded in the everyday.Ziad taught us that being a revolutionary doesn’t require a uniform or a slogan. It requires listening. It requires holding complexity, laughing in the face of despair, and making room for joy even when the world is on fire. He reminded us that culture is the deepest infrastructure of any resistance movement. He refused to be sanitized, censored, or simplified.As we mourn him, we also inherit his clarity. For artists, for organizers, for thinkers: Ziad Rahbani gave us a blueprint. Create without permission. Tell the truth. Fight for Palestine without compromising your own roots. And never forget that the people will always hear what is real.He was, and will always be, a compass for creative rebellion."
}
,
{
"title" : "Saul Williams: Nothing is Just a Song",
"author" : "Saul Williams, Collis Browne",
"category" : "interviews",
"url" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/readings/saul-williams-interview",
"date" : "2025-07-21 21:35:46 -0400",
"img" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/uploads/EIP_SaulWilliams_Shot_7_0218.jpg",
"excerpt" : "Saul Williams: Many artists would like to believe that there is some sort of sublime neutrality that art can deliver, that it is beyond or above the idea of politics. However, art is sometimes used as a tool of Empire, and if we are not careful, then our art is used as propaganda, and thus, it becomes essential for us to arm our art with our viewpoints, with our perspective, so that it cannot be misused. I have always operated from the position that all my work carries politics in it, that there are politics embedded in it. And I’ve never really understood, if you are aiming to be an artist, why you wouldn’t aim to speak directly to the times. Addressing the political doesn’t have to take away from the personal intimacy of your work.",
"content" : "Collis Browne: Is all music and art really political?Saul Williams: Many artists would like to believe that there is some sort of sublime neutrality that art can deliver, that it is beyond or above the idea of politics. However, art is sometimes used as a tool of Empire, and if we are not careful, then our art is used as propaganda, and thus, it becomes essential for us to arm our art with our viewpoints, with our perspective, so that it cannot be misused. I have always operated from the position that all my work carries politics in it, that there are politics embedded in it. And I’ve never really understood, if you are aiming to be an artist, why you wouldn’t aim to speak directly to the times. Addressing the political doesn’t have to take away from the personal intimacy of your work.Even now, we are reading the writings of Palestinian poets in Gaza and the West Bank, not to mention those who are part of the diaspora, who are charting their feelings and intimate experiences while living through a genocide. These works of art are all politically charged because they are charged with a reality that is fully suppressed by oppressive networks and powers that control them.Shakespeare’s work was always political. He found a way to speak about power to the face of power, knowing they would be in the audience. But also found a way to play with and talk to the “groundlings,” the common people who were in the audience as well.Collis Browne: Was there a moment when you realized that your music could be used as a tool of resistance?Saul Williams: Yeah, I was in third grade, about eight or nine years old. I had been cast in a play in my elementary school. I loved the process of not only performing, but of sitting around the table and breaking down what the language meant and what the objective and the psychology of the character was, and what that meant during the time it was written. I came home and told my parents that I wanted to be an actor when I grew up. My father had the typical response: “I’ll support you as an actor if you get a law degree.” My mother responded by saying, “You should do your next school report on Paul Robeson, he was an actor and a lawyer.”So I did my next school report on Paul Robeson. And what I discovered was that here was an African American man, born in 1898, who had come to an early realization as an actor that the messages of the films he was being cast in—and he was a huge star—went against his own beliefs, his own anti-colonial and anti-imperial beliefs. In the 1930s, he started talking about why we needed to invest in independent cinema. In 1949, during the McCarthy era, he had his passport taken from him so he could no longer travel outside of the US, because he refused to acknowledge that the enemies of the US were his enemies as well. He felt there was no reason Black people should be signing up to fight for the US Empire when they were going home and getting lynched.In 1951, he presented a mandate to the UN called “We Charge Genocide.” In it he charged the US Government with the genocide of African Americans because of the white mobs who were lynching Black Americans on a regular basis. [Editor’s note: the petition charges the US Government with genocide through the endorsement of both racism and “monopoly capitalism,” without which “the persistent, constant, widespread, institutionalized commission of the crime of genocide would be impossible.”] When Robeson met with President Truman, Truman said, “I’d like to respond, but there’s an election coming up, so I have to be careful.”Paul Robeson sang songs of working-class people, songs that trade unionists sang, songs that miners sang, songs that all types of workers sang across the world. He identified with the workers and with the working class, regardless of his fame. He was ridiculed by the American Government and even had his passport revoked for his activism. At that early age, I learned that you could sing songs that could get you labeled as an enemy of the state.I grew up in Newburgh, New York, which is about an hour upstate from New York City. One of my neighbors would often come sing at my father’s church. At the time, I did not understand why my dad would allow this white guy with his guitar or banjo to come sing at our church when we had an amazing gospel choir. I couldn’t understand why we were singing these school songs with this dude. When I finally asked my parents, they said, “You have to understand that Pete—they were talking about Pete Seeger—is responsible for popularizing some of the songs you sing in school.” He wrote songs like “If I Had a Hammer,” and he too was blacklisted by the US government because of the songs he chose to sing and the people he chose to sing them for, and the people he chose to sing them with. I learned at a very early age that music and art were full of politics. Enough politics to get you labeled as the enemy of the state. Enough politics to get your passport taken, or to be imprisoned.I was also learning about my parents’ peers, artists whom they loved and adored. Artists like Sonia Sanchez, Amiri Baraka, and Nikki Giovanni, all from the Black Arts Movement. Larry Neal and Amiri Baraka made a statement when they started the Black Arts Repertory Theatre School in Harlem that said essentially that all art should serve a function, and that function should be to liberate Black minds.It is from that movement that hip-hop was born. I was lucky enough to witness the birth of hip-hop. At first, it was playful, it was fun, but by the mid to late 1980s, it began finding its voice with groups like Public Enemy, KRS-One, Queen Latifa, Rakim, and the Jungle Brothers. These are groups that started using and expressing Black Liberation politics in the music, which uplifted it, made it sound better, and made it hit harder. The first gangster rap was that… when it was gangster, when it was directly challenging the country it was being born in.As a teenager, I identified as a rapper and an actor. I would argue with school kids who insisted, “It’s not even music. They’re just talking.” I would have to defend hip-hop as music, sometimes even to my parents, who found the language crass. But when I played artists like KRS-One and Public Enemy for my parents, they said, “Oh, I see what they’re doing here.”When Public Enemy rapped, “Elvis was a hero to most, But he never meant shit to me you see, Straight up racist that sucker was, Simple and plain, Motherfuck him and John Wayne, ‘Cause I’m Black and I’m proud, I’m ready and hyped plus I’m amped, Most of my heroes don’t appear on no stamps,” my parents were like Amen. They understood. They understood why I needed to blast that music in my room 24/7. They understood.When the music spoke to me in that way, suddenly I could pull off moves on the dance floor like doing a flip that I couldn’t do before. That’s the power of music. That’s power embedded in music. That’s why Fela Kuti said that music is the weapon of the future. And, of course, there’s Nina Simone and Billie Holiday. What’s Billie Holiday’s most memorable song? “Strange Fruit.” That voice connected, was speaking directly to the times she was living in. It transcended the times, where to this day, when you hear this song and you understand that the “strange fruit” hanging from Southern trees are Black people who have been lynched, you understand how the power of the voice, when you connect it to something that is charged with the reality of the times, takes on a greater shape.Collis Browne: Public Enemy broke open so much. I grew up in Toronto, in a mostly white community, but I was into some of the bigger American hip-hop acts who were coming out. Public Enemy rose to a new level. Before them, we were only connecting with punk and hardcore music as the music of rebellion.Saul Williams: Public Enemy laid down the groundwork for what hip-hop is: “the voice of the voiceless.” It was only after Public Enemy that you saw the emergence of huge groups in France, Germany, Bulgaria, Egypt, and across the world. There were big acts before them. Run DMC, for instance, but when Public Enemy came out, marginalized groups heard their music and said, “That’s for us. Yes, that’s for us.” It was immediately understood as music of resistance.Collis Browne: What have you seen or listened to out in the world that has a clear political goal, but has been appropriated and watered down?Saul Williams: We can stay on Public Enemy for that. Under Secretary Blinken, Chuck D became a US Global Music Ambassador during the genocide in Gaza. There are photos of him standing beside Secretary Blinken, accepting that role, while understanding that the US has always used music as a cultural propaganda tool to express soft power. I remember learning about how the US uses this “soft power” when I was working in the mid-2000s with a Swiss composer, who has now passed, named Thomas Kessler. He wrote a symphony based on one of my books, Said the Shotgun to the Head, and we were performing it with the Cologne, Germany symphony orchestra, when I heard from the head of the orchestra that, in fact, their main financier was the US Government through the CIA.During the Cold War, it was crucial for the American Government to put money into the arts throughout Western Europe to try to express this idea of “freedom,” as opposed to what was happening in the Eastern (Communist) Bloc. So it was a long time between when the US Government started enlisting musicians and other artists in their propaganda campaigns and when I encountered this information.There’s a documentary called Soundtrack to a Coup d’État, which talks about how the US Government used (uses) music and musicians to co-opt movements and propagate the idea of American freedom and democracy outside the US in the hope of winning over the citizens of other countries without them even realizing that so much of that art is there to question the system itself, not to celebrate it. Unfortunately, there are situations in which an artist’s work is co-opted to be used as propaganda, and the artist buys into it. They become indoctrinated, and you realize that we’re all susceptible to the possibility of taking that bait."
}
,
{
"title" : "The Culture of Artificial Intelligence",
"author" : "Sinead Bovell, Céline Semaan",
"category" : "interviews",
"url" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/readings/sinead-bovell-on-ai-artifial-intelligence",
"date" : "2025-07-20 21:35:46 -0400",
"img" : "https://everythingispolitical.com/uploads/sinead-bovell-headshot.jpg",
"excerpt" : "Céline Semaan: It is being reported that AI will make humans dumber than ever, that it is here to rule the world, and to subjugate us all by bringing on a climate apocalypse. Being an AI and tech expert, how can you help people better understand AI as a phenomenon that will impact us but that we shouldn’t necessarily fear?",
"content" : "Céline Semaan: It is being reported that AI will make humans dumber than ever, that it is here to rule the world, and to subjugate us all by bringing on a climate apocalypse. Being an AI and tech expert, how can you help people better understand AI as a phenomenon that will impact us but that we shouldn’t necessarily fear?Sinead Bovell: It depends on where you are… in the Global North, and particularly in the US, perspectives on artificial intelligence and advanced technologies are more broadly negative. When you look at regions in the Global South, when you look at regions in Asia, AI is seen in a much more positive light. Their societies tend to focus on the benefits new technology can bring and what it can do for their quality of life. The social media ecosystem thrives on negative content, but it really does depend on where you are in the world as to how negatively you’re going to view AI. When it comes to the actual fears and the threats themselves, most of them have some validity. Humans could become less intelligent over time if they’re overly reliant on artificial intelligence systems, and the data does show that AI can erode core cognitive capacities.For example, most of us can’t read maps anymore. If you are in the military and your satellite gets knocked down and you need to understand your coordinates, that might be a problem. But for the average person, not reading a map has allowed us to optimize our time; we can get from A to B much more quickly. What do we fill the time with that AI gives us back with? That’s a really important question.Another important question is: How do we purposely engineer cognitive friction into the learning and thinking environment so we don’t erode that core capability? That’s not something that is just going to happen. We are humans, we take the path of least resistance, like all evolutionary species do. If you look at the printing press, the chaotic abundance of information eventually led to the scientific method and the peer review. Educators, academics, scientists, and creators needed to figure out a way to sort through the valuable information and the nonsense, and that led to more cognitive friction. Those pathways haven’t been developed yet for AI. How we use and assimilate AI depends on the actions we take when it comes to the climate apocalypse, for instance. As of now, how AI uses water and energy is nothing short of a nightmare. However, it’s not really AI in isolation. It’s our social media habits in general. When you look at them in aggregate and globally, our digital habits and patterns aren’t good for the climate in general. And then AI just exacerbates all of that.AI is not a technology that you are going to tap into and tap out of. It’s not like Uber where maybe you don’t use the app because you would prefer to bike, and that’s the choice that you make. AI is a general-purpose technology, and it’s important that we get that distinction, because general-purpose technologies, over time, become infrastructure, like the steam engine, electricity, and the internet. We rebuild our societies on top of them, and it’s important that we see it that way, so people don’t just unsubscribe out of protest. That only impedes their ability to make sure they keep up with the technology, and give adequate feedback and critiques of the technology.Céline Semaan: I recently saw you on stage and heard your response to a question about whether AI and its ramifications could be written into an episode of the TV show Black Mirror. Would you be able to repeat the answer you gave?Sinead Bovell: The stories we see and read about AI are usually dystopian. Arguably, there are choices we continue to make over and over again that we know will lead to negative outcomes, yet we don’t make different choices. To me, that’s the real Black Mirror episode… can we rely on ourselves? In some circumstances, we continually pick the more harmful thing. Most of the big challenges we face are complicated but not unsolvable. Even with climate, a lot of the solutions exist, and actually most of them are grounded in technology. What isn’t happening is the choice to leverage them, or the choice to subsidize them so they become more accessible, or the choice to even believe in them. That scares me a lot more than a particular use case of technology. Most of the biggest challenges we face are down to human choices, and we’re not making the right choices.Céline Semaan: Are you afraid of AI taking over the world and rendering all of our jobs useless? How do you see that?Sinead Bovell: There’s AI taking over the world, and that’s AI having its own desire and randomly rising up out of the laptop or out of some robot. I’m not necessarily concerned about that. You can’t say anything is a 0% chance, right? We don’t know. There are so many things you can’t say with 100% certainty. I mean, are we alone the universe? It’s really hard to prove or disprove those types of things. Where I stand on that is… sure allocate research dollars to a select group of scientists who can work on that problem. However, I am quite concerned about the impact AI is going to have on the workforce. We can see the destruction of certain jobs coming. It’s going to happen quickly, and we’re not preparing for it properly. Every general-purpose technology has led to automation and reconfiguration of the shape of the workforce. Let’s look at the first industrial revolution which lasted from approximately 1760-1840. If we were to zoom in on people working in agriculture, by the end of the 19th Century, around 70-80% of those people were doing something different. That is an astounding change. People had jobs, they just looked very different from working on the farm. But what if that happens in seven years rather than 80 years? That’s what scares me. I think the transition will be quite chaotic because it’s going to be quite quick, but it doesn’t have to be. History isn’t a great predictor of the future, but it does give you a lot of examples of what you don’t need to do again.The reason the industrial revolution turned out to be a good thing in the end, in terms of the life we all live, is that, for instance, we have MRIs and don’t have to have our blood drained to see if we’re sick. But people were just left to fend for themselves. It was chaos, and it turned into this kind of every person for themselves. Kind of figure it out. Get to the city. Bring your family. Don’t bring your family. It was really chaotic. How are we going to not repeat that? I don’t know if we are putting the security measures in place to make sure people are protecting that transition.The most obvious one to me is health care in the United States. I don’t know the exact number, maybe it’s around 60% of people, but don’t quote me on that, are reliant on their job for health care. That’s where their insurance comes from. What is going to happen to their insurance if their job goes away or if they transition to being self-employed? How do we help people transition? People don’t even dare go down that road, but those are the types of conversations that need to happen.Céline Semaan: In 10 years from now, will we look at AI as just another super calculator. And we will be asking the same questions that we are asking today, meaning that the change we’re seeking is not necessarily technological, but philosophical and cultural. How do you see that?Sinead Bovell: AI will look like much more of a philosophical, cultural, and social transition than solely a technological one. This is true of a lot of general-purpose technologies.The inventions in technology lead to how we organize our societies and how we govern them. If you look at the printing press, it led to a secular movement and gave power to that engine. You get big social, philosophical, cultural changes, and revolutions in society when you experience this scale of technical disruption. I think we will look back on the AI inflection point as one of the most pivotal transitions in human history in the past couple 100 years. I would say it’s going to be as disruptive as the printing press and maybe steam engine combined. And we made it through both of those. There was a lot of turmoil and chaos, but we did make it through both of those.We are a much more vibrant, healthy society now. We live longer and, relatively speaking, we have much more equality. There is a path where it works out, but we have to be making the decisions to make that happen. However, it’s not practical that a subset of the population makes the decisions on behalf of everyone. And that’s why I think it’s so important for people to get in the game and not see AI as this really technical device or technology, but instead, as a big social, cultural and philosophical transition. Your lived experience qualifies you to participate in these conversations; there’s nobody who can carry the weight of this on their own."
}
]
}
